Join date: 2012-02-21
|Subject: Shadowknight Agro Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:59 am|| |
Shadowknights are still having issues with agro... Even leading off with a lifetap DoT and immediately using taunt, the rogue and berserker bots can steal agro within a second. Additionally, on longer fights, I can rarely pull a mob off the cleric bot who has heal agro.
Currently using the SK 2.0 with dual lifetap augs... I know some will suggest the hate augs and in most cases that would be accurate... But shadowknights entire foundation is built around taps and with the proper AAs, which I have, they are supposed to generate more hate from their enhanced taps than an Anger I aug can produce.
Join date: 2012-02-12
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:16 pm|| |
I only have threat issues when I am being lazy and not using any spell rotations. Other than my suicidal wizard. If im actually paying attention and using terrors im generally ok.
Whats your standard pull/rotation?
Join date: 2012-02-21
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:05 am|| |
I'm convinced more than ever that either melee bots are generating way too much agro or the shadowknights aren't generating enough. I just did the Carprin cycle in Crypt of Decay and isolated High Priest Ultor Szanvon as a test dummy. I have a G510 keyboard so my initial actions are all macro'd. After targeting the mob, my macro's initiate a specific series of functions... To start, Bond of Inruku (135 pt lifetap) is cast to pull the mob, doability is second and is set up to trigger taunt (which it does), attack is turned on which then sends my bots into action... As a backup, I also have a #bot group attack in there to ensure the bots are in fact attacking my target, they like to go pick their own fights.
With combat fully initiated, I then cast Theft of Hate (Level 70, single target hate spell) and follow that with a Blood of Discord (210 pt DoT). Bond of Inruku and Blood of Discord are kept on the High Priest the entire fight, which I didn't time but lasted somewhere around 1.5-2 minutes. The named in the Carprin cycle are all immune to spells with run speed modifiers so using Festering Darkness (Level 61 snare) is discarded. I have my spell crit AA's so you can figure in a few crits on my DoTs. Epic 2.0 with dual lifetap augs and all the supporting lifetap AAs which give me lifetaps throughout the fight anywhere from 600 to 920 points of damage (which is also heal agro).
As a good measure, whenever Theft of Hate repops, it was cast again... In this case, I believe it was used three times. With the High Priest at 75'ish percent, I also casted Dread Gaze (Level 69 AE hate spell). Throughout the entire fight until his death, taunt is constantly used as well as bash (I have the 2handed bash AA).
At 20%, I lost agro to the rogue and was never able to recover it for the rest of the fight despite a desperate use of Theft of Hate.
Join date: 2012-02-12
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:16 pm|| |
I'm a bit at a loss here, I can honestly say in all my time playing Zol on live, I never recalled taps being a major source of aggro. I left game early 2008, so maybe it came after that. But looking up Lucy data on the spells Touch of Devourer and Theft of Hate, there is no added hate on them beyond the DD hate and heal hate.
I do notice in your post you dont mention use of terrors or dread gaze, These are vital spells. Love them!
So I went to the SK forums to see if much has changed from my days... and from what I am reading as late as 2011, it really hasnt.
Here is what i found. Thread references some newer spells in game, but just swap in the current ranks of the same line.
This is one of the best writeups i've read in a long time.
|1. The first action you performed on a mob with no hate list is hard capped - you can not generate more than 150 hate on the first action against a mob. There are 3 exceptions to this rule, and 3 exceptions only: Sk terror spells, paladin stun spells (not AAs), and paladin crush spells - these all bypass the hard cap and give you the full amount of hate listed in the spell, so these should *always* be the first thing you use against any mob.|
In this example that means your 1 hate spell + melee gives you about 10-15 seconds (barring proximity issues) of lead time before the rogue pulls aggro off you. The end result is that versus an average high end geared dps class you have approximately 5-10 seconds before their hate overtakes yours and you need to drop another hate spell to keep ahead of them.
|Ideally what you want to have happen is you drop hate spells to get a big enough lead on the DPS that you can begin casting non-hate spells - such as heals, splash, defy, denouncement, dots, lifetaps, etc - whatever helps the healers have less damage they need to cover to keep you alive.|
So when you're tanking something after you've dropped that initial hate-dump, you want to basically be trying to heal, debuff, etc in between hate spell refreshes, and then casting one any time it's ready to be cast.
This is how I keep threat: Pull with Terror (non dmg, no chance of getting below summons mark). As its running towards, Snare (if not immune - if immune cast anything else you want). If i have 3 or more, Dread Gaze as soon as all in range (keeps non target mobs off healer) or 2nd Terror if single. From there I can do any dots, taps, spears, or lifetaps I want, usually about 3-4 casts before i need to re-terror. If i still have multiples, re-DG every refresh. For lower hp mobs, they never live to re-terror stage.
Never use Dread Gaze on singles (unless wanting to frontload ALOT of threat and ZERO chance of adds), 30 sec recast time and same hate amount as Terror of Discord.
Another decent threat thread:
Join date: 2012-02-21
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:16 am|| |
Sorry for the late response... This issue has been resolved. I had a brain fart and was using Theft of Hate instead of the terror line...
Join date: 2012-07-31
Join date: 2012-07-19
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:07 am|| |
imo try the low level spell:Disease Cloud ~ ftw mad agro no mana try that i think you will be pleased
Join date: 2012-09-06
|Subject: Re: Shadowknight Agro Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:57 am|| |
We'll see if this works, but for me this is how my spell bar looks.
I can maintain agro for the most part, warriors or warrior bots with anger augments can defnatly pull agro from me. Their is also an anger augment that shadow knights can use found in the instanced version of lower Guk by using the NPC in the loby.
But Rouges/Bards/Monks/Beastmasters can all instantly agro a mob apon engagement. Usually given a few seconds they will calm down and the warrior will regain agro, but in worse cases where DPS is to high for the bot or PC, their is no way for a warrior to taunt anything off once agro has been established. It's one of the reasons I suggested that an augment with some type of anger lowering effect be implemented.
This may also be a dead post I know, but I did leave a reply for anyone in the future that may find this helpful.